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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Billings, MT
    Posts
    120

    Default Questions after reading Smoke 'n Spice

    My questions resulted from me re-reading the introductory sections of Smoke 'n Spice, the James Beard award-winning cookbook from 1994. I've had it forever, but hadn't really read much of the info section in many years until last night. The authors are Bill and Cheryl Jamison. They make several comments about smokers and smoking that are interesting to me. I thought it might provoke some good discussion.

    1. The commentary section talks about different types of smokers and how they work. It specifically says that having fat dripping on the coals produces carcinogens that can attach to the meat you're cooking and recommends cooking with a water pan. Now obviously that flies in the face of everything that a typical UDS is. What are your thoughts? I had been contemplating adding a water pan to my UDS anyway.

    2. In general, the Jamisons recommend smoking at between 200-220 degrees and they talk a lot about how the long periods of time and low temperature are necessary to get the proper flavor and tenderness in your meat. Based on what I've learned here, I typically smoke my shoulder and brisket at a higher temperature (275*), because it gets done quicker and comes out great. That said, I'm tempted to try to run a shoulder all the way through at 210* just to see if I get a different result. I know this has been discussed to death, but I still find it interesting.

    3. Lastly, they generally recommend cooking pork shoulder only to 170-180 degrees before pulling, with no mention of foil. Yet everything I've ever learned online insists on 190-200 degrees in order to get the pork to "pull." Similarly, there is no mention of the texas crutch, but then maybe that wasn't really invented at the time (1994).

    Just a few things that seem to be inconsistent with what we generally do now. Overall, there are some really good recipes in that book and I would highly recommend it. I also have a grilling book by the Jamison's that is good for steaks, chops, burgers, etc.

    Have a good rest of your weekend!

    http://facebook.com/yvBBQa

    85 Gallon Black UDS - "Dokie"
    55 Gallon Black UDS - "Meat Dawg"
    30" Black MES
    Weber Gensis E-320
    Weber Smokey Joe

    I like pig butts and I cannot lie . . .

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    w.KS
    Posts
    3,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by donnylove View Post
    My questions resulted from me re-reading the introductory sections of Smoke 'n Spice, the James Beard award-winning cookbook from 1994. I've had it forever, but hadn't really read much of the info section in many years until last night. The authors are Bill and Cheryl Jamison. They make several comments about smokers and smoking that are interesting to me. I thought it might provoke some good discussion.

    1. The commentary section talks about different types of smokers and how they work. It specifically says that having fat dripping on the coals produces carcinogens that can attach to the meat you're cooking and recommends cooking with a water pan. Now obviously that flies in the face of everything that a typical UDS is. What are your thoughts? I had been contemplating adding a water pan to my UDS anyway.

    My thoughts are that I'm gonna eat, drink and do what I want. I'm not gonna live in fear of death. Add a water pan, or don't. Do what makes you happy.


    2. In general, the Jamisons recommend smoking at between 200-220 degrees and they talk a lot about how the long periods of time and low temperature are necessary to get the proper flavor and tenderness in your meat. Based on what I've learned here, I typically smoke my shoulder and brisket at a higher temperature (275*), because it gets done quicker and comes out great. That said, I'm tempted to try to run a shoulder all the way through at 210* just to see if I get a different result. I know this has been discussed to death, but I still find it interesting.

    IMHO, these Jamisons didn't think outside the box at all. Try different things, it's not gonna hurt anything. If people never thought outside the box then brisket would always be hamburger.

    3. Lastly, they generally recommend cooking pork shoulder only to 170-180 degrees before pulling, with no mention of foil. Yet everything I've ever learned online insists on 190-200 degrees in order to get the pork to "pull." Similarly, there is no mention of the texas crutch, but then maybe that wasn't really invented at the time (1994).

    If everyone is doing one thing, and only one is doing another...who would you think knows what they are doing? Sometimes going outside the box is good, try it and see for yourself.

    Just a few things that seem to be inconsistent with what we generally do now. Overall, there are some really good recipes in that book and I would highly recommend it. I also have a grilling book by the Jamison's that is good for steaks, chops, burgers, etc.

    Have a good rest of your weekend!
    I'm glad you posted this, cause the last book I'll ever read will be written by the Jamisons.

    It is just a practice and do what you think is best. I just went through this myself w/the SOB. My family and I like mine better, but many on this site like the SOB better. I'm not wrong, imho, I'm different.(very different if ya ask most of these turds ). The best food you will ever eat will be made in your home by you or a loved one. I'ts not right, and it's not wrong...it's just right for you.

    Just my opinion, and its right.

    Mistakes - It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tulsa
    Posts
    4,976

    Default

    I will take a shot at the carcinogens aspect.

    It may well be true that some of the compounds yielded by direct fire cooking can be classified as carcinogenic. That being said the question becomes "How much exposure to those compounds would it take to even approach taking a chance of producing cancer.

    I think there has never been a study that show any negative effect on humans from eating grilled food.

    I am surprised that a book written for outdoor cooks by outdoor cooks would even lend credibility to that concept. Most generally, that is nothing more than a device used by the anti meat crowd to further their agenda.

    If anyone can ever produce a legitimate study that shows any truth in this, I will acknowledge it, but until then..............

    Oh, and BBTW, IMHO, 190 pork is done enough.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Billings, MT
    Posts
    120

    Default

    What about the idea that the smoke created by fat dripping on the coals lends a bad flavor to food? I've never noticed an off flavor on the exterior of my meats from the UDS . . . anyone else?

    http://facebook.com/yvBBQa

    85 Gallon Black UDS - "Dokie"
    55 Gallon Black UDS - "Meat Dawg"
    30" Black MES
    Weber Gensis E-320
    Weber Smokey Joe

    I like pig butts and I cannot lie . . .

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tulsa
    Posts
    4,976

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by donnylove View Post
    What about the idea that the smoke created by fat dripping on the coals lends a bad flavor to food? I've never noticed an off flavor on the exterior of my meats from the UDS . . . anyone else?
    I rest my case as far as that whole thing being a device of the anti meat eating crowd like PETA.

    You be the judge.

    Oh, and Jason, if you did it right, they would like it better. Come to the Get together in May, and I'll show you. Some folks just can't follow cooking instructions.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    w.KS
    Posts
    3,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokyOkie View Post
    Oh, and Jason, if you did it right, they would like it better. Come to the Get together in May, and I'll show you. Some folks just can't follow cooking instructions.
    I don't know what else to do, except make them the right way.

    Most of the liquid that drips on coals/fire is water, turns to steam not smoke.

    Mistakes - It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    St Catharines, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    730

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokyOkie View Post
    I rest my case as far as that whole thing being a device of the anti meat eating crowd like PETA.

    You be the judge.

    Oh, and Jason, if you did it right, they would like it better. Come to the Get together in May, and I'll show you.
    Kudos Tim. This is a man who knows Jason. All the best...
    KCBS CBJ
    ZEEK




  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tulsa
    Posts
    4,976

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAL View Post
    I don't know what else to do, except make them the right way.

    Most of the liquid that drips on coals/fire is water, turns to steam not smoke.
    Not if you leave the fat on!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    w.KS
    Posts
    3,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokyOkie View Post
    Not if you leave the fat on!!!!!!!!!!!


    I'm think'n steaks.

    Mistakes - It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tulsa
    Posts
    4,976

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAL View Post


    I'm think'n steaks.
    Then, not if you buy good steaks.

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