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View Full Version : Here they are boys, tear 'em up



SmokyOkie
05-10-2009, 05:16 PM
Turn in boxes from Bixby

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p190/dickeydoobbq/turn%20in%20boxes%20Bixby%202009/HPIM2443.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p190/dickeydoobbq/turn%20in%20boxes%20Bixby%202009/HPIM2444.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p190/dickeydoobbq/turn%20in%20boxes%20Bixby%202009/HPIM2447.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p190/dickeydoobbq/turn%20in%20boxes%20Bixby%202009/HPIM2448.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p190/dickeydoobbq/turn%20in%20boxes%20Bixby%202009/HPIM2457.jpg

Please score e'm for us and I'll post what the judgers said in a bit.

Butt Lover's
05-10-2009, 05:38 PM
Alright, I don't like to do this but for you guys I will.

Chick: 8 Looks good but not 9ish to me - but I wish my chicken looked that good!
Ribs: 7
Pork: 8 I think appear. scores would be better if the sauce wasn't as noticable
Brisket: 8-9, can't decide, I sure want to eat some of it so probably a 9

Not to thread hijack, but the appearance scores this week were wacky. My ribs appearance scores were 889995. Glad they drop the lowest!

BYBBQ
05-10-2009, 07:12 PM
Chicken............8.....a little dark in places and uneven saucing.

Ribs.........7...8 uneven sized pieces and heavy coating of sauce

Pork........6....uneven sized slices and who spilled the sauce cup???

Brisket......7-8.... looks a little over done and starting to fall apart on the left side of pic. Someone spilled the sauce cup again.

Someone needs to hide the sauce ladle at turn-in time.:roflmaoha0::roflmaoha0:

Bbq Bubba
05-10-2009, 08:02 PM
Wow, you are definetly learning by your mistakes! :thumbs up:

Only critical thing i would say is.......again with the sauce on the pork???

Capt Dan
05-10-2009, 08:18 PM
I don't know very much about this, but I have seen a few boxes and the scores.

I would say 7's on the chicken and the ribs because the pieces are not equal sizes, 8 onthe pork, because of too much sauce, and 8 on the brisket because of uneven sauce and just too many pieces in the box.

Just my opinions.:shrug:
I hope I don't regret my comments!

Congrats on a 16th overall! Big list of good teams.

:kewlpics:

Capt Dan
05-10-2009, 08:40 PM
Alright, I don't like to do this but for you guys I will.

Chick: 8 Looks good but not 9ish to me - but I wish my chicken looked that good!
Ribs: 7
Pork: 8 I think appear. scores would be better if the sauce wasn't as noticable
Brisket: 8-9, can't decide, I sure want to eat some of it so probably a 9

Not to thread hijack, but the appearance scores this week were wacky. My ribs appearance scores were 889995. Glad they drop the lowest!

Congrats on a 10th overall and a 7th in Brisket!:thumbs up:

chef schwantz
05-10-2009, 09:01 PM
Hard to judge overall, without having tasted. I woll lend my two cents:

Chicken looks good, nice uniform size and glaze with the sauce, given that I'd say 8-9

Ribs look pretty good, but cant see the side to check for a smoke ring. assuming it's there, I'd say 8-9.

Pork only looks so-so. Only see one or 2 pieces with bark, and sauce seems sloppy. Give it a 5-6.

Brisket only looks so-so, tendernous is apparent, but whatever it is glazed in is either hiding the smoke ring, or it isn't there, almost looks like roast beef with gravy. Give it a 5-6.

That said, it isn't exactly fair to judge by a picture, when so many other factors come in to play at the judges table.

jminion
05-10-2009, 09:14 PM
7. The top two pieces of chicken needed work to other looked great.

7. Ribs the two top right rough cut, sauce touch up could have helped.

8. pork like layout less sauce would have worked.

7. brisket left side needed help sharp knife and trim, looks like could have been torn.

twissers and a fan artist brush can help to improve glaze once the meats in the box.

SmokyOkie
05-10-2009, 10:09 PM
OK, I hate to beak the suspense. Here are the appearance scores

Chix-999898 I can live with that
Ribs-978778 Actually better than what I would've expected. we had some problems with the ribs and all ai can say is that we did the best we could with what we had. anybody else ever have 4 slabs with bones so curved that you couldn;t get hardly any straight cuts?
Pork-988799
Brisket-889877



Chicken............8.....a little dark in places and uneven saucing.

Ribs.........7...8 uneven sized pieces and heavy coating of sauce

Pork........6....uneven sized slices and who spilled the sauce cup???

Brisket......7-8.... looks a little over done and starting to fall apart on the left side of pic. Someone spilled the sauce cup again.

Someone needs to hide the sauce ladle at turn-in time.:roflmaoha0::roflmaoha0:

Actually, I think the sauce on the chix looks uneven because of the lighting in the photo. Everyone watched me brush them and I can guarantee that they couldn't have been sprayed on any more even. the darkness is partially due to the browning of the skin ( for crispness) and partially because the sauce we use is dark.

Also, remember Jim, what you see and what the judges see 10-20 minutes later are two different things. I can promise you that there was no sauce on the surface of the brisket by the time the meat was presented, and besides, it is mostly au jus, not sauce ( 5:1)

Remember too that judges are directed to judge whether or not the food looks appealing and never to score based on artisitic or skilled presentation. The thought as expressed by the KCBS is that it is a BBQ contest and not an art contest. Also remember that the lowest score given at the table is always dropped off.



Wow, you are definetly learning by your mistakes! :thumbs up:

Only critical thing i would say is.......again with the sauce on the pork???

Are we? read the scores. This time, 889877, last time,999997. :shrug:


I don't know very much about this, but I have seen a few boxes and the scores.

I would say 7's on the chicken and the ribs because the pieces are not equal sizes, 8 onthe pork, because of too much sauce, and 8 on the brisket because of uneven sauce and just too many pieces in the box.


Just my opinions.:shrug:
I hope I don't regret my comments!

Congrats on a 16th overall! Big list of good teams.

:kewlpics:

A$$hole!:roflmaoha0::roflmaoha0::roflmaoha0::roflm aoha0::roflmaoha0:


Hard to judge overall, without having tasted. I woll lend my two cents:

Chicken looks good, nice uniform size and glaze with the sauce, given that I'd say 8-9

Ribs look pretty good, but cant see the side to check for a smoke ring. assuming it's there, I'd say 8-9.

Pork only looks so-so. Only see one or 2 pieces with bark, and sauce seems sloppy. Give it a 5-6.

Brisket only looks so-so, tendernous is apparent, but whatever it is glazed in is either hiding the smoke ring, or it isn't there, almost looks like roast beef with gravy. Give it a 5-6.

That said, it isn't exactly fair to judge by a picture, when so many other factors come in to play at the judges table.

At the orientation before each and every KCBS contest, there is a tape played for each and every judge, experienced or not. all judges are required to listen to it. There is an entire paragraph devoted to espressly directing all to never judge for smoke ring. "Smoke ring can be artificially generated chemically and has no bearing on flavor" I believe is one of the things they say.

SmokinOkie
05-11-2009, 09:29 AM
Dude, you're doing great in your second year.

Chicken 7 or 8 (the back right piece is smudged)

Ribs 7 (back row really draws the eye to that bad cut)

Pork 6 or 7. If it shows up with sauce like that, it's "close" to marking, but unlike au jus, that sauce probably won't soak in. and I see very little bark. Just too much sauce to make it look good, the meat should be the star.

Brisket 6 or 7 (left edges are REALLY distracting from a quality stand point, both from how it's cut to how it's overcooked where the slices are spreading out)

FYI, I judge Bixby this last weekend and I didn't see any of those boxes cross my table, would have love to sample 'em.

Now, for this comment:



Remember too that judges are directed to judge whether or not the food looks appealing and never to score based on artisitic or skilled presentation. The thought as expressed by the KCBS is that it is a BBQ contest and not an art contest.

As an experienced Judge, that's not entirely accurate. The RULES are defined and in the official copy it doesn't say that. What you learned in Class, was an explaination by that trainer and there are many trainers or many years, so unfortunately it's great to quote one class, but it's not that black and white.

The reality is that judge eat with their eye "as presented". It doesn't say, as presented, ignore the parsley. Judges are individuals, and once they're left training, they will endeavour to score as they decide (right or wrong, they will). If the parsley is a little off on one side, they're not judging the parsley, they're judging as presented.

Judge a few more contests, not just one and a class, and you'll see how subjective the scores are. I've done boxes EXACTLY the same way, and they looked the same, but the appearnace scores change from contest to contest. It sucks, we don't like it, but we've judged enough to know.

Example; One judge last weekend doesn't like sauce. How do you think she'd score the pork? You'll never be able to quote the "intent" of how to score to her, she's judging as she was trained.

For newbies, work on the taste and tenderness and work hard on the appearance, but it's weight is 1/4 that of taste and 1/2 of tenderness.
Once you've got those two down, then the final advice is to SWEAT the little details in appearance. We do, very much so. The difference between an 8 and a 9 cost me about $4,500 last year in a contest. or basically about .5714 (which is what one appearance point is worth)

peculiarmike
05-11-2009, 10:38 AM
Dude, you're doing great in your second year.

Chicken 7 or 8 (the back right piece is smudged)

Ribs 7 (back row really draws the eye to that bad cut)

Pork 6 or 7. If it shows up with sauce like that, it's "close" to marking, but unlike au jus, that sauce probably won't soak in. and I see very little bark. Just too much sauce to make it look good, the meat should be the star.

Brisket 6 or 7 (left edges are REALLY distracting from a quality stand point, both from how it's cut to how it's overcooked where the slices are spreading out)

FYI, I judge Bixby this last weekend and I didn't see any of those boxes cross my table, would have love to sample 'em.

Now, for this comment:


As an experienced Judge, that's not entirely accurate. The RULES are defined and in the official copy it doesn't say that. What you learned in Class, was an explaination by that trainer and there are many trainers or many years, so unfortunately it's great to quote one class, but it's not that black and white.

The reality is that judge eat with their eye "as presented". It doesn't say, as presented, ignore the parsley. Judges are individuals, and once they're left training, they will endeavour to score as they decide (right or wrong, they will). If the parsley is a little off on one side, they're not judging the parsley, they're judging as presented.

Judge a few more contests, not just one and a class, and you'll see how subjective the scores are. I've done boxes EXACTLY the same way, and they looked the same, but the appearnace scores change from contest to contest. It sucks, we don't like it, but we've judged enough to know.

Example; One judge last weekend doesn't like sauce. How do you think she'd score the pork? You'll never be able to quote the "intent" of how to score to her, she's judging as she was trained.

For newbies, work on the taste and tenderness and work hard on the appearance, but it's weight is 1/4 that of taste and 1/2 of tenderness.
Once you've got those two down, then the final advice is to SWEAT the little details in appearance. We do, very much so. The difference between an 8 and a 9 cost me about $4,500 last year in a contest. or basically about .5714 (which is what one appearance point is worth)

Good comment.

SmokyOkie
05-11-2009, 11:20 AM
You are definitely correct about the fact that it is not black and white.

Obviously, there is no way to make taste a black and white thing, nor is there any way to make eye appeal a black and white thing.

That's what makes this whole thing such a challenge.

SmokinOkie
05-11-2009, 03:40 PM
My solution?

Spend more time in the class teaching about taste than about what a DQ is. That's why there is a Table Captain and a Contest Rep, they make the rulings anyway

glued2it
05-11-2009, 08:01 PM
The sauce on the pork is hot and thin and will soak in more than you would think.

How would the sauce be considered marking?

SmokyOkie
05-11-2009, 09:14 PM
My solution?

Spend more time in the class teaching about taste than about what a DQ is. That's why there is a Table Captain and a Contest Rep, they make the rulings anyway

How would you teach about taste? Better yet, how would you define it?:shrug:

SmokinOkie
05-12-2009, 07:42 AM
How would the sauce be considered marking?

If the sauce is in a definite shape, and doesn't cook in, it's like drawing a big z or some letter on top of the meat... that's marking; essentially making it where someone in the judges tend could identify it.

Jake
05-14-2009, 03:11 AM
all i got is looks good to me, pip is the sauce lover at this end though, congrats to all of you,i would eat it no problem :msn-wink: